Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 16: A political life: from grassroots to parliament 鈥� with Libby Davies
Speakers: Melissa Roach, Maria Cecilia Saba, Jamie-Leigh Gonzales, Libby Davies, Jack Webster
[theme music]
Melissa Roach 0:06
You鈥檙e listening to Below the Radar, a knowledge mobilization project recorded out of 312 Main. This podcast is produced by SFU鈥檚 Vancity Office of Community Engagement.
Maria Cecilia Saba 0:17
Below the Radar brings forward ideas to encourage meaningful exchanges across communities.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 0:21
Each episode we interview guests on topics ranging from environmental and social justice, arts, culture, community building, and urban issues. This podcast is recorded on the unceded territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples.
[theme music]
Melissa Roach 0:42
How do you talk about a lifetime of political weight and activism in only thirty minutes? Well, you can鈥檛, really, but we sure did try. This is Below The Radar, and our next guest is , a lifelong activist and former member of parliament for Vancouver East, who got her start organizing and advocating for people in the Downtown Eastside community over forty years ago. My name is Melissa Roach.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 1:05
And I鈥檓 Jamie-Leigh Gonzales, and we鈥檙e your hosts for this episode, talking to Libby about the history of organizing in the neighbourhood, as well as her experiences as an activist and a woman in politics. We鈥檙e also talking to her about her recently released book about those experiences, called .
Melissa Roach 1:22
Which will be launching at 51社区黑料later this month, on May 22nd, and you鈥檙e all invited to join us to hear more about Libby then. She鈥檚 also invited a panel of guests to be in conversation with her.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 1:33
We really enjoyed doing this interview and we hope you enjoy listening to it.
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Melissa Roach 1:44
Hi, Libby!
Libby Davies 1:45
Hello!
Melissa Roach 1:45
Thank you for coming in today.
Libby Davies 1:47
My pleasure.
Melissa Roach 1:49
We are excited to talk to you about your memoir, Outside In. And we鈥檙e very excited to be launching it later this month -- it鈥檚 something I鈥檝e been looking forward to for a long time. And we were talking about the book and remarking on what an incredible storyteller you are, which I remember from hearing you speak before, but it鈥檚 just a joy to read, as well.
Libby Davies 2:12
Oh, thank you.
Melissa Roach 2:15
Reading these glowing reviews, I came across this term. People are saying that you do this work kind of at the intersection of social justice and politics, which you think would be not intersecting, but one and the same, at least in my mind. So I came across the term 鈥渁ctivist politician鈥�, so I wanted to ask you, what does it mean to you to be an activist politician? Or, is that how you identify yourself? Because you talk about the need for activists, advocates, and politicians to all work together, but how does it change conversations around the table if people who are elected when representatives come from activist backgrounds?
Libby Davies 2:58
Well, I think it鈥檚 a really great way to start. And often, you know, when I would go to meetings, I would never introduce myself as a politician because it had --it does, still have-- such a negative connotation for people. This idea of a politician is like an insider, someone who only cares about themself, and their political advancement, you know? And so I was used to saying that I was an MP, or an elected representative, and so the idea of an activist politician to me has always reflected on the idea that your purpose, your involvement, is something bigger than the formal, sometimes very small world of politics. Whether it鈥檚 in Ottawa, whether it鈥檚 provincial, whether it鈥檚 locally, the formal world of politics can be tight, it can be the inside game, so then this idea that we have to get beyond that, we have to find these connections between social movements, activism and the political world. We can鈥檛 ignore each other, right?
Libby Davies 4:14
And that鈥檚 fascinated me over forty years, this connection (or lack of connection) between what I would call social movement politics, or activism, and the more formal world of politics and, why do we collide so often? Why do we misunderstand what we do? Why are we not better allies on the progressive side? Why aren鈥檛 we working together more closely, when we know who the real -- I hate to use the word 鈥渆nemy鈥�--, but when we know what the real forces against us are, why aren鈥檛 we working together more closely? So that鈥檚 always fascinated me, and I wanted to kinda bring that out. I have always seen myself as that kind of bridge, because I鈥檝e lived and worked in both worlds. But, really, I always saw myself as an organizer. Even when I was in Ottawa, it was my Ottawa job, and so this idea that I鈥檓 still an organizer at heart, that鈥檚 how I approached things, that鈥檚 how I approach politics, it鈥檚 very much part of my kind political DNA.
Melissa Roach 5:18
That鈥檚 a great start because for me that captures a lot of the flavour of the book. And, you鈥檙e so great at, like you said, 鈥渁cting as that bridge鈥�, and working at so many levels, municipally and all the way to Ottawa. My other question is about the book itself, the memoir: How was the process of writing a memoir for you? I know it鈥檚 kind of a long process, and memory works in kind of tricky ways, I find, like, you don鈥檛 always remember things in chronological order, you can鈥檛 just recall things at will. How was that experience for you? And, were there any stories that came up after you said, 鈥淗ere鈥檚 my final draft鈥�? Like, were there things that came up after that, and you were like 鈥淥h, I wish that could have come to me earlier鈥�?
Libby Davies 6:17
I love that question, because people don鈥檛 always ask you about the process itself. It took me two years, on and off. I remember once talking to -- in fact this was just last summer-- and she said, 鈥淗ow鈥檚 [the book] coming?鈥�, and I said, 鈥淲ell, you know, I鈥檓 getting there鈥�, and she said 鈥淥h, for God鈥檚 sake, just go hire a ghostwriter, it鈥檒l be done in two months.鈥� And I said 鈥淣o, I鈥檓 still plugging away at it鈥�. But, you know what? I loved the writing, and, in a weird way, that was the easy part. I couldn鈥檛 stop. I did it all in an iPad, with two fingers; I don鈥檛 have a laptop or a desktop, it is all in my iPad. And, weirdly, the most challenging part was after I鈥檇 done the first several drafts and starting doing the editing, I work with a wonderful editor in Toronto, Tillman Lewis, and it was the technical challenges of doing the tracking, and I鈥檓 not very good at technical stuff, so that was actually strangely really hard -- well, not hard, but I found it frustrating. The actual writing, I think I had all this stuff stored up in my brain for forty years and it just started spilling out.
Libby Davies 7:38
But, you鈥檙e absolutely right, Melissa; even now it鈥檚 like, 鈥淥h my God! I didn鈥檛 say this; I forgot about that.鈥� So the process of writing itself, and I鈥檓 sure many people experienced this, even when you write a paper, the very process of writing triggers your memory. But, I think what was more important for me was talking to people. I didn鈥檛 talk to a lot of people, I felt so shy about writing this, I didn鈥檛 share it all over the place, but Am Johal was, I think, the first person who read the first draft, and I was like 鈥淥h, what鈥檚 he gonna say!鈥� But, actually, speaking with people really triggered my brain to remember things, because I really wanted to remember these early days in the Downtown Eastside, even before it was called the Downtown Eastside, because there鈥檚 actually not many people left who were there at that time. I mean, I鈥檓 still here. is still here. But there鈥檚 very few people left. And I thought, 鈥淢y God, we have to put this down on paper鈥�. And so, I would often phone up Jean and say, 鈥淛ean, do you remember when we did this?鈥� and it was weird, we would have completely different memories; she would go, 鈥淥h, I forgot about that, but I do remember this.鈥� So, you know, it鈥檚 really a very dynamic process of your memory, right. But I can absolutely tell you that even now I鈥檓 thinking, 鈥淲ow, there鈥檚 so much I did not say that I should have said in the book鈥�. But, you know, you also have to be manageable. I think I could have written a whole book just on the Downtown Eastside part, there was a lot more to say, but I wanted to cover distance and all the stuff that happened.
Melissa Roach 9:27
How do you distill forty years of experience into so many pages?
Libby Davies 9:32
That鈥檚 really good, because the other challenge, it鈥檚 one thing to madly write out everything that you remember, you know, and to try and make it colourful and interesting. But how you develop the overall narrative, like in the themes. I got wonderful feedback from an editor in East Van, she鈥檚 retired now, Barbra Pooling. She did an amazing job, she helped me understand that I needed to be a lot more personal. I really said nothing about my own life, and she said, 鈥淧eople wanna know鈥�. So she really coached me and helped me on that. So again, it鈥檚 that process back and forth with people and developing what the narrative is, and I don鈥檛 think I understood that before I started. It鈥檚 not just one long chronological thing, it鈥檚 like you gotta have themes, you gotta have questions you鈥檙e addressing, so I kinda came to understand the process. I鈥檓 still learning, I feel I鈥檓 very much a novice at doing this.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 10:36
I think the way that you wrote it, everything was very humanizing to a political world that maybe Melissa and I were a little bit outside of, because, like you say, Jean Swanson is still around, but a lot of these folks aren鈥檛 around, so for us these are people that kinda set up where we are now, but they鈥檙e not players in the game. And one thing that stood out was that early on you mentioned how Bruce would go for breakfast鈥�
Libby Davies 11:05
Right across the street
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 11:06
Yeah, with Harry and with Jack Webster who, you know, you sent us that video link later with you on the show, and I was like, 鈥淲ow, there have a real human connection鈥�. But then, when you get on the show, like you鈥檙e talking 鈥済oal gosping鈥� --I think that鈥檚 what you called it, about local politics over breakfast every morning. But on the show he鈥檚 just cut-throat, and sexist, and I was kind of shocked.
Libby Davies 11:35
You wrote me an email saying, 鈥淭his was hard to listen to鈥�. And I鈥檓 so glad you did that because part of my own understanding and writing is learning how so much over the decades I denied my own experience as a woman in politics. I mean, even after writing the book and talking about the book, again I really didn鈥檛 go into that enough. And so when I saw that clip that you saw, I just remembered him as this curmudgeonly old guy鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 12:16
骋谤耻尘辫测鈥�
Libby Davies 12:17
Yeah, and Harry was like that too. But, you see, I was used to these guys. I thought it was like, regular. And I would hang out with them and sit there and listen, and I was in my early twenties. And it鈥檚 only now, looking back on that clip, which was leading up to the 1982 Civic Election campaign, where they were so sexist towards me-- and too. It鈥檚 stunning.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 12:44
We鈥檒l play the clip.
Jack Webster 12:45
Who I鈥檝e known for a long time and they鈥檙e working with the . Now, Are you Brucey鈥檚 wife?
Libby Davies 12:52
That鈥檚 right, .
Jack Webster 12:53
Bruce Eriksen鈥檚 wife. And you鈥檙e running for COPE.
Libby Davies 12:55
That鈥檚 right.
Jack Webster 12:56
And you鈥檙e both seeking and you鈥檒l both serve as a husband and wife team working together for COPE if you are both elected.
Libby Davies 13:04
Well, Bruce and I have been involved in civil politics for about ten years. I鈥檝e run for council before, I鈥檝e been very active with DERA, I鈥檓 presently on the Parks Board, so both of us being involved in civic politics and me running for council it鈥檚 something that鈥檚 certainly not new.
Jack Webster 13:20
How many Eriksen-Davies babies?
Libby Davies 13:21
There鈥檚 just one. Lief, who鈥檚 three. Lief Eriksen.
Jack Webster 13:23
Lief, who鈥檚 three. And will Leif be looked after if you鈥檙e both elected?
Libby Davies 13:28
Oh, yeah. We鈥檒l still look after him, you bet.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 13:33
You were so polite! So much tact. It just blows my mind because he doesn鈥檛 really give you any space to introduce yourself, he cuts you off, and now, for me listening, I think part of what was so shocking was that he goes 鈥淲ell, you know who鈥檚 gonna be at home taking care of the baby鈥�. Or, 鈥淚s Lief gonna be OK?鈥�. Which is like, mind-boggling, but now, also me being six months pregnant, I was like, 鈥淚f somebody said that to me right now鈥︹��.
Libby Davies 14:03
I鈥檓 so happy to hear you say that because to me that is evidence that the culture is changing, although there鈥檚 still a lot of sexism.See, at the time 鈥搕his is terrible- I don鈥檛 think I gave it a second thought. But Kim, my partner, when she looked at it, we wrote an article --I wrote an article for the Toronto Star, and she said to me, 鈥淵ou鈥檝e got to put in this bit about Jack Webster and how you kinda looked down鈥�. But she felt that there was some anger there as well, that I looked down and said, 鈥淲ell, of course we will, we鈥檒l be looking after Lief鈥�.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 14:39
Yeah
Libby Davies 14:39
So, I feel like it鈥檚 been this kind of slow burn for four decades of understanding this experience, and realizing, 鈥淲ow, that stuff really happened鈥�. Yes, you would absolutely call it out today, but I didn鈥檛. Why didn鈥檛 I? Because I didn鈥檛 know it? Because it just seemed normal? Because these men were my mentors? It鈥檚 very complicated, right? But now I鈥檓 seeing it, and I鈥檓 as shocked as you are.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 15:13
Which is good, it does mean that there鈥檚 been some progress in the last bit with women in positions of power鈥�
Libby Davies 15:21
I mean even George Puil saying, 鈥淥h, no, now he wants to get his wife elected鈥�. It鈥檚 like, 鈥淩eally?!鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 15:28
I know. It was hard for me to listen to it. Sure, it was a different generation, but to think these were the leaders of our city at the time, you know? And these were the influencing 鈥揳nd Jack Webster being one of the influential minds鈥�
Libby Davies 15:44
We have the Jack Webster Award鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 15:46
Yeah, the Journalism Award.
Melissa Roach 15:51
It seems that in other areas you weren鈥檛 afraid to call people out, to call things out. Going to chapter one, 鈥淥rganize, Organize, Organize鈥�, reading about the heydays of DERA, the Downtown Eastside Residents Association, and the kind of rubble-rousers you were鈥�
Libby Davies 16:10
We were.
Melissa Roach 16:12
My reading was, 鈥淥h, here鈥檚 this badass group going after the system and calling out stereotypes and injustices about this neighborhood, but also you say that this inequality persists at a large scale, those issues are, like, ever present. So, what do you think that 1970鈥檚 Libby would think of politics in the Downtown Eastside today?
Libby Davies 16:42
Well, if we could go back in time and then have this vision of the future as we know it now, I think it would be, on the one hand, shocking that we鈥檙e still dealing with many of the same issues, but also, I think to me, the most important thing would be that the Downtown Eastside still exists, it didn鈥檛 get wiped out, like pretty well any other inner city in North America that got gentrified, wiped out, hollowed out. That this community 鈥揵ecause it is a community鈥攕till survives and is very resilient, even though there鈥檚 been so many changes. I think, if I went back and was looking forward, I think I would feel proud of that, that this community has continued even though there are still incredible inequalities around income, that housing is still a major issue. And that there are new issues, because back then we really didn鈥檛 see, it wasn鈥檛 really homelessness, you know? It didn鈥檛 really exist. People lived in the crappy hotels and roomy houses, but you didn鈥檛 see people literally destitute on the street. The issue of people using drugs really was not visible. So, there鈥檚 obviously been very major shifts as well in terms of what鈥檚 happening in the community. And, also, back then the indigenous community was very, very small. So the people coming from reserves to the urban areas and establishing the Downtown Eastside as a very strong indigenous community, that鈥檚 also a major change that forty years ago was not that evident.
Melissa Roach 18:33
That part is amazing.
Libby Davies 18:35
Because now it鈥檚 very strong, it鈥檚 pretty much part of the identity of the Downtown Eastside and a lot of the amazing leadership is coming from young indigenous people in the community.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 18:46
There was one part of the book where you talk about Bruce kinda standing up for indigenous rights in a way, like with language that was very much鈥�
Libby Davies 18:58
Oh, that was the Mackenzie Valley pipeline.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 19:00
Yeah!
Libby Davies 19:01
Wow! I found that by accident. I went to the hearing, it was at a hotel, the Hyatt or something, I found it by accident, I was googling something else and I went, 鈥淥h, wow, yeah鈥�, and I found the speech of the presentation that he made for DERA, and I started reading it and it just, like, blew me away. Like, the language and the issues, in terms of colonization and people being dispossessed of their land, like this is what we were raising forty years ago鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 19:33
And it鈥檚 now becoming mainstream conversation, but that he was that progressive to recognize the impacts that it had and鈥�
Libby Davies 19:43
And people back then鈥� DERA was considered like 鈥揳s I say this 鈥� a militant, radical, way off the grid group, right? But that issue was real, and to put it on the public agenda at a Royal Commission hearing, I think, was very important. So, it鈥檚 that kind of history that I wanted to make sure was recorded, I mean, just bits of it, there鈥檚 so much more. So that people can see the early beginnings and the roots of this particular community and the changes that have taken place.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 20:01
Yeah, and the language, too, like, indigenous rights are connected to these global issues, right? And I think this was something you quoted, saying, 鈥淐ivil Politics is just stuck on, like, potholes and dogshit鈥� (laughs). And so, like, what is sort of the importance of the municipal government taking on more global issues?
Libby Davies 20:46
If we understand that change begins at the bottom, it begins at the grassroots, it begins in a local community, it begins where oppression exists, it begins where people are fighting to stop something, or to maintain something, it鈥檚 always at the local level. And so, the engagement, politically, at the local level, is really important. And I think that鈥檚 always been a very strong issue in Vancouver and it took me years to understand what an impact DERA had politically on the city, overall. Even today, right? DERA doesn鈥檛 exist anymore but the politics of the Downtown Eastside and what happens down here has a huge impact on the city, so that connection is palpable, it鈥檚 very real, and it has a lot of meaning, and a lot of consequences, if you embrace it or if you ignore it. So hopefully that is interesting to people to see some of the origins of that too, because it was sort of a forgotten neighbourhood, it wasn鈥檛 seen as a neighbourhood, it didn鈥檛 exist, you know? People down here were seen as nothing. And, well, we don鈥檛 see that today now, right? I mean, most people in Vancouver today might not like everything that they see, but they do understand that it鈥檚 a real place and that people live here. Sorry, I鈥檓 losing my trail of thought here and trailing off.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 22:21
That鈥檚 okay, I think kind of the eighties was like the last time where we didn鈥檛 have such an intricately-woven globalized world, because now everything has been like broken open and we can see everything. It feels like what we experience here, we can connect to people on the other side of the world. So I think, like, municipal governments are taking on more global issues also because those global issues impact community, impact civic elections, in some ways, I think, I hope so, anyways.
Libby Davies 22:56
Yes, and I think people see that now as part of the political discourse, locally, like connecting. So, the whole issue in the book around the nuclear arms race in the eighties, and Vancouver declaring itself a nuclear weapons free zone, and some of the signs are still up around the city.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 23:16
Totally! I remember seeing one of those signs. I grew up, like, a little outside the city, so when I first moved into the city I was like, 鈥淲hat? Does it need to be stated?鈥�
Libby Davies 23:24
That was the first time that connection was being made. And there was criticism for it, right? As you say, this idea that civic politics was really just about fixing streets and potholes, and things like that. But this idea that we were connected globally and what happened globally, has an impact on people who live in the city. We get that today, and it鈥檚 a very important connection. Most changes are coming through the cities鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 23:52
Which is, like, incredible to see the work that you鈥檝e done to make it a nuclear-free zone, and to have me grow up thinking, 鈥淲ell, yeah, obviously. Is that even necessary to say?鈥�, but it was, like, a fight that you took on, so that鈥檚 pretty incredible, that I could grow up being oblivious to this because of the work that you鈥檝e done.
Libby Davies 24:12
This is why we need to always keep talking and recording and writing and history. I鈥檓 thinking of the book that just came out about labour history in BC. I mean, it鈥檚 so important. Labour history has been so critical to the development of our city and even of BC, right? And a lot of people don鈥檛 know that, right? The history of labour and the struggles that took place. wrote and it鈥檚 the history of the labour movement in BC. An incredible book, I mean, it鈥檚 a big book, with lots of photographs of this history. And the DTES, like, during the Depression, what was called the Powell Street Grounds, now , was the centre of many of the struggles of unemployed workers.
Melissa Roach 24:48
You鈥檝e mentioned in the book that鈥檚 where the was initiated?
Libby Davies 25:03
Yeah, it was all centered.
Melissa Roach 25:06
Things were happening right here. Do you mind if we talk about Ottawa?
Libby Davies 25:13
Not at all.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 25:14
What鈥檚 going on in Ottawa?
Melissa Roach 25:17
To me the job of a member of parliament seems very far away from me, so it鈥檚 wild to have one in real life, you鈥檙e sitting right here before me. I鈥檓 wondering how your experiences and your trajectory as an organizer in politics shaped how you were in your job as an MP. Being an activist and being out, which wasn鈥檛 a thing in parliament. If you could speak a little to what was like for you.
Libby Davies 25:53
I think I鈥檝e struggled with the same question, like, 鈥淲hat am I meant to do as a member of parliament?鈥� I was used to being a city councilor. City council is a very egalitarian place, each councilor is there in the same room, at the same time, they were voting, debating. In Ottawa it is very hierarchical, established by partners and how many seats you have, it鈥檚 very focused on the party itself. And I went to Ottawa knowing what I had to do, because people were dying of drug overdoses and infected with HIV/AIDS. It was a crisis, sort of the first wave of the crises of drugs in the community. But I didn鈥檛 know how to approach it and it was really when I began to think about, how would I do this if I was an organizer? So, there鈥檚 a few stories in the book about how I approach the issue, and I would say that critical to working on those issues was maintaining a very close connection with groups like . And that鈥檚 what kept me going. They needed an ally in Ottawa, but I also needed them to understand what was going on, truly on the ground.
Libby Davies 27:13
In Ottawa, I found, it was very easy for people to be drawn into this vortex of all that intrigue, and we still see that today, right? Like, who鈥檚 doing what, and somebody did this, and it just feeds on itself. For me, I was much more focused on issues, and what I felt we needed to do to fight on those issues, whether it was on housing and homelessness, or people who use drugs, and how people are criminalized, or the missing and murdered women, sex worker rights. It was, I think, learning again how to bring the experience I had as an organizer to parliament. It鈥檚 funny, I always saw myself, first and foremost, as an organizer, not as a parliamentarian, even though I became House Leader for the NDP. So, it was right in the middle of all of that internal stuff that goes on in Ottawa, in the House.
Melissa Roach 28:11
Which is cool, it鈥檚 really cool.
Libby Davies 28:12
Yeah, I learned so much! But, even then, it felt like dual lives, you know? Like I鈥榙 be in Ottawa and I was so immersed in this minutia of what was going on in the house, and this motion, or that motion, this was about, especially in the minority Parliaments, where things were very fragile, and you never knew what was gonna happen, not only day-to-day, but literally hour-by-hour. But there was this other life, in Vancouver, that I would come back to every week, every weekend, or when the parliament was sitting, I鈥榙 be here the whole week. And that鈥檚 what kept me grounded, right? And I remember having these conversations with when he was the Leader and saying, 鈥淚鈥檓 happy to be your House Leader, I鈥檒l learn, I鈥檒l do my best, but I have to keep working on these issues, because that鈥檚 what I鈥檓 elected for, that鈥檚 what鈥檚 important in our community鈥�. And so it was that kind of duality. I look back now and think it was pretty weird because they were so different, but somehow, I managed to reconcile them most of the time. But, yeah, there were times when it was kinda frantic and stressful.
Melissa Roach 29:25
Yeah, like you say, getting caught in the minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour, of being in Parliament. I鈥檓 just remembering that Members of Parliament are representatives of their ridings, of their communities, and the people who elected them.
Libby Davies 29:39
Sometimes people forget that, right?
Melissa Roach 29:41
That it鈥檚 not just about party politics, it鈥檚 about the people you鈥檙e working for.
Libby Davies 29:45
But I think I had the incredible privilege to represent East Vancouver, that is an activist community. I mean, I think I know lots of neighbourhoods and communities across Canada, and there are centers of activism, but Vancouver East鈥� wow! You know, there鈥檚 so much that鈥檚 in the history, and what happens now, and so I always feel like that was just an incredible thing, right? Being connected to that. Whereas for many MPs, if they鈥檙e representing a suburban riding, or鈥� it sounds like I鈥檓 being very dismissive, I mean, there鈥檇 be different issues there. Like, I would not know how to represent a huge rural riding. I wouldn鈥檛 know how to go about doing it, my experience is so different. And that鈥檚 what鈥檚 so amazing about our parliamentary system; you have these MP鈥檚 who represent such hugely different kinds of populations and communities. But, for me, because it was East Van, and the history we have, and the activism we have, it propelled me every day. It compelled me, as well, to stay on top of stuff, and to keep moving; to keep moving and to keep working.
Melissa Roach 30:59
Yeah, it shows amazing longevity鈥� so many decades鈥� (laughs)
Libby Davies 31:04
You do build up a lot of stamina (laughs)
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 31:08
Well, you told us that you had written sort of an alternative ending to the book, which was an open letter to youth. Can you tell us a little bit about what that was and where that came from?
Libby Davies 31:21
It actually came from Am. Give him full credit.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 31:26
But the heart and soul of the letter, where did that come from?
Libby Davies 31:28
Well, just the idea that there were certain things, or truths, that I felt I had come across as a result of experience, and you kinda want to share that, right? I don鈥檛 want to lecture people; everyone finds their own path, you find your own wisdom, your own truth. But, I also learned that having people around you who have done other things, or maybe similar to what you鈥檙e doing, you can learn from that. So, I wanted to share. I wanted this to also be a book that younger activists could pick up, and who are struggling with this issue of how do they engage with this crazy, political world of formal politics, right? How do they make change? And that was very much a current for me throughout the book, that kept me writing. That question, right? How does change happen? How can I share that with people? And so, the letter at the end was to, sort of distill some of the things I learned, right? This idea that you鈥檙e not alone. That you should go join something, that you鈥檙e much more powerful when you join something. But, the other thing was giving space to people, you know? Like, I don鈥檛 know it all 鈥� none of us know it all. This idea of sharing space and experience, and building on that, and making it more powerful, is very important. It鈥檚 about cooperation. It鈥檚 about collaboration. And if I had negative experiences, it was always about the, sometimes, the discord on the left, right? When people end up fighting over things that sometimes in the long run, you think, 鈥淩eally? Come on鈥�. We have to get through this, we have to get past it, we have to learn how to stand together and get through these differences. I kinda wanted to get that over, so that idea, like Am鈥檚 idea of a letter that would be written with some of these understandings, I thought was a great idea. It did end up being cut out.
Melissa Roach 33:40
I hope that you鈥檒l publish it in another format.
Libby Davies 33:44
I did send it to Am, it鈥檚 actually a very short letter, but the ideas in that letter are still there in the conclusion of the book. But the idea of the letter itself, it didn鈥檛 actually stay in.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 33:55
Well, I think the intention behind the letter is here, because you鈥檙e sitting here talking to two women in their twenties who are interested and trying to engage. So, these themes are important for us to hear because we do burn out, also, and it鈥檚 nice to hear these things from somebody who has, like, really experienced it all.
Libby Davies 34:17
But, you know, I鈥檓 learning as much, it鈥檚 not a one-way street. You know, every day, and now too, because I鈥檓 still involved in things, I learn from younger activists, like, 鈥淲ow, that鈥檚 incredible, I didn鈥檛 know that鈥�, or 鈥淭hat鈥檚 a great way of doing it鈥�, so it鈥檚 not like the way it used to be, is the way it has to be. Things evolve. How we work together evolves, I mean just this space here, at , the idea of people sharing work space, and working together and collaborating is a really great thing. So, I do think it is a learning unfolding process, and that鈥檚 what I love; it really is about engaging.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 35:01
I think that鈥檚 a good place to end.
Melissa Roach 35:02
Yeah, thank you so much.
Libby Davies 35:04
Oh, my pleasure, it鈥檚 lovely to talk to you.
Melissa Roach 35:07
I鈥檓 so looking forward to the event later this month. Thank you so much, Libby.
Libby Davies 35:14
My pleasure.
Melissa Roach 35:15
We鈥檒l talk to you soon!
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Melissa Roach 35:19
That was our conversation with Libby Davies. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you to Libby for coming in and sharing with us. And don't forget, we'll be launching Libby's memoir at 51社区黑料on May 22, at 7pm. You can find details for that at SFUWoodward's.ca, and it's a free event. All you have to do is register. Thanks so much, and we'll catch you next time.
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